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  #31  
Old 07-18-2001, 10:26 PM
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The best place to polish a turbo is on the outside.

Once it's set up for the compressor ot turbine wheels, any polishing will alter air flow around the wheel. This will cause you to loose power. If it's severly off, it can set up a vibration that will destroy the turbo.
Keep in mind that my turbos are relatively low speed at 98,000 RPM. They can and will spin much faster, but that's the optimum range. Many turbos turn 140,000 or more to achieve higher boost. At that kind of speed, it doesn't take much to mess things up.
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  #32  
Old 07-19-2001, 01:17 PM
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How about removing flashing/casting marks etc. especially on the inlet/outlet. I've seen some turbo websites that will polish your turbo and claim that it makes more power which is what put the idea in my head in the first place... also I am curious about your hybrid t3/t4, how is this hybridization done (basically could I do it myself with average machine shop tools)? I'm pretty sure the twin t3's will work on my 259 all right but if I ever decide I need more boost I'd have to rework them somehow, either with P+P or the hybrid conversion... since I'm a DIY kind of guy I'm naturally very interested in the process.
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  #33  
Old 07-19-2001, 08:18 PM
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The hybrids would overpower your engine.
Professional porting is good. I thought you meant DIY home porting.
Hybrids are essentailly a T3 turbo body and turbine with a T4 compressor. They will bolt together and are a wee bit smaller than a T4.

Turbos are like Legos. You can play mix-n-match all day long with wheels and housings. Not many center sections will accept housings from different sized units.
Check out Turbonetics for more info and some compressor maps.
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  #34  
Old 07-19-2001, 09:52 PM
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Hey there Curious and TT440; do either of you have any more info on that other turbo car. The picture is very small and I can't tell what the model or year is. Thanks guys.............djs
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  #35  
Old 07-19-2001, 10:00 PM
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http://www.bearshobbies.bizland.com/start.html
71 charger port injected 440.
sounds as sweet as it looks. http://bearshobbies.bizland.com/chargerturbo.wav
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  #36  
Old 07-19-2001, 10:07 PM
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crap! bad link. please disregard the link for sound. go to bear's site and open the wav file.
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  #37  
Old 07-19-2001, 11:43 PM
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If you mean the twin turbo EFI 340 Challenger (red car grey plumbing) you can probably reach him under the name "booster" at Moparts.
He's a really nice guy with a nice set up. When I grow up I wanna be just like him!
Goose... if you want to see a comparison of the 2.2 turbo compressor wheels and the larger wheels I'm running, check out the post "feets turbo 440" on Moparts. Someone there had a similar question and I posted the compressor maps. They show you the pressures and volume a particular wheel can move.
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  #38  
Old 07-20-2001, 01:09 AM
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im not real observant being im only 17 but that is a purple 71 charger with a 440 (distribor in front, not back) sorry if i sound argumenative.
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  #39  
Old 07-20-2001, 11:23 AM
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Default oopsie....

Booster posted his TT340 on a different thread.
The purple Charger is a street/strip MONSTER. The Challenger is a high powered canyon carver.

I plan on morphing the Belvedere into a combination of the two.
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  #40  
Old 07-20-2001, 11:51 AM
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OK, so I'm aware of at least 2 good sources for T3's (2.3 fords and 2.2 mopars), what cars came with factory T4's? The hybrid thing intrigues me, I've got a '78 400 that is begging for twin turbos and T3's probably won't cut it.
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  #41  
Old 07-20-2001, 01:10 PM
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my belief is youre gonna need to outsource from the General. grand nationals and gmc syclone pickups both have 1 turbo and its big enough for them the syclone is 260 something cubic inches - 4.3L. 2 should be plenty enough. should come cheap since most have upgraded allready. what about turbos off buses? some of the new school buses in our area are equipped with 500 something cubic inches and twin turbos. and yes they can turn those big tires over. is a diesel turbocharger different in design?
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  #42  
Old 07-20-2001, 03:08 PM
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A mild diesel turbo would work if you wanted to go with a single. Again, you need to match the volume and pressure to the capabilities of the turbo. With twins, you can split the volume but you still need the pressure.

Here's the compressor maps. The pressure is on the vertical and the volume is on the horizontal. Figure out how much air you need to move and at what pressure. Find that point on the compressor map. If it's not in the smallest "circle" (peak efficiency) then you may want to try a different compressor.
Here's the popular T3 60 wheel:


And the wheel I'm running:


Look up 30 lbs of air at 1.6 (8 psi) on both maps. You can see that it's clearly waaay too much for a T3 but is right in the beginning of the sweet spot for the T4 60-1 wheel.
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  #43  
Old 07-20-2001, 03:16 PM
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i ve been considering a "sick twist idea" for a while. my choice was a 413 or a 318. both can be had for nearly nothing. but i cant find good beefy parts for them. i believe they both come with forged cranks and good rods, but how good are they under boost? more importantly is finding lower compression forged pistons. the 318 has swirl port heads so swapping to larger 340/360 heads will drop my compression a little but how much? does any one know where i can find forged pistons in lower compression ratios? need help.
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  #44  
Old 07-20-2001, 03:24 PM
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I was just looking at the T3 flowmaps for my tt259, and looks like a pair of "40" trim would work well for my project. I'm not perfectly clear on what "trim" means though... how is this changed and how can one tell the trim you have? The 40's would give me just under 65% efficiency at top RPM, while the 60's would put me in the sweet spot at max. I have read some reccommendations that say one should be in the sweet spot at peak torque, if so then the 40's do just that for me. I need roughly 30 lb/min total at 10 PSI which I figure is a good ballpark guess for a non-intercooled 7.6 CR engine. Of course it looks like the 60's would work too, I think I would be OK with the surge line there. Any preference/advice? Are the 60's common in the wrecking yards?
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  #45  
Old 07-20-2001, 04:34 PM
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Look for a T-bird Turbo Coupe with an automatic tranny or the 2.2 turbos with the Garret turbo. The Merkur also carries that T3.
They will have Garret cast into the compressor housing. I'm thinking that they will be kinda nice for a 259.
They are also cheap-n-easy to rebuild if necessary.

Go with the 318. There's much more room and it can be done on the cheap! The same turbos mentioned above will hold a decent boost level at modest RPM.
You really don't need to go all out to make a decent powerplant. If it's in good shape, I bet you'll be just fine for a long time. The stock cams are amongst the best for turbo engines.

If you want to rebuild, the 318 is much easier to get pistons in usable sizes. You don't need to drop the compression severely. Anything between 8 and 9 should be fine.
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  #46  
Old 07-20-2001, 04:46 PM
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What trim are the turbos on the 2.3 fords and the 2.2 mopars? I'm gonna stick with the 259 for right now because it's the engine that came with the car, possibly later I will consider the 318 swap... it'll take some serious mods to put a 318 in my '55 Plaza and I wanna play with just turbos first so I can get a feel for what's involved.
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  #47  
Old 07-20-2001, 07:46 PM
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Question Turbo charging with carb question??

TT 440, I have long wanted to run a turbo with a big block, I just thought it would be tough with a carburetor, here's why:
I am assuming that you are running your pressurized ducting onto the carb inlet (sealed to top of carb).
I was wondering how I could maintain proper air fuel mixture in a pressurized environment if the pressure was basically equalized and there was very little pressure drop across the venturies.
Wouldn't this cause a weak signal at the carb and result in a very lean condition?
This may be the bug that you are now encountering. Just wondering---thanks.
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  #48  
Old 07-20-2001, 07:54 PM
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The turbos mentioned earlier are the T3 60 wheel (first chart) that move higher pressures and lower volumes.
The turbines are .48 A/R which is the same exhaust wheel I've got but in a tighter housing (mine is Stage III).

Fuel metering is staying nice and fat. I slipped an O2 sensor just outside the turbine housing and popped an AutoMeter gauge in the dash. The mix has no problems at the current 8 psi. Higher boost levels may require an extra jet.

It looks like my problems are the needles behaving irratically. I think I'll drop the Holley 800 DP on it this weekend and see what happens. Cound be interesting.
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  #49  
Old 07-20-2001, 09:43 PM
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the ford 2.3 t-03 are generally either .48 a/r or .63 a/r. the .63's will support about 300-350hp at the crank

the .48's will go for about 250-300 hp

this is just hear say off of the jyturbo egroup at yahoo.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jyturbo

its worth taking a look at. lots and lots of info.!!!
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  #50  
Old 07-21-2001, 10:21 AM
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Those numbers are about right. Now, when you use two turbos and each of them can support 300 hp....

Mine will support 400-450 hp each. I'm hardly exercising the poor things.
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  #51  
Old 07-22-2001, 09:08 PM
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Default Twin Turbo 440

I am very interested in the posting regarding 440 TT.
I was looking for ways to increase horsepower and living in Denver I am already at disadvantage because of altitude.
This looks like the way I want to go so Thanks TT440 you opened my eyes.
My car is 72 Charger with 440 low compression engine(I think)
I look foreward to reading all posts on this subject!
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2001, 03:44 PM
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Default BOV dump line routing

I was just looking at a turbo site and the author explained that on a stock Eagle Talon the BOV dump line opens into the intake duct. This supposedly is to feed the air back through the turbine to keep it spooled up. Others have disputed this claim, and to me it seems sort of ridiculous; moving air through the compressor will not keep the turbo spinning! Now, if the BOV dump line went into the EXHAUST side of the turbo, that would help keep the turbo spinning. Anybody try this? The only problem I can see right now is that the turbine would be subjected to thermal shock and a highly oxidizing environment.
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  #53  
Old 07-23-2001, 05:13 PM
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It blows into the fresh air system for a couple reasons.
1) some of the tend to draw a little air from the outside and you want that filtered.
2) it reduces the amount of sound generated when the valve opens.

Mine are vented to the atmosphere.
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  #54  
Old 07-23-2001, 05:51 PM
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Default fuel system

when you guys go to a injection setup which one will you choose? why? price? features? theres just too many setups out there. i was looking into DFI but it ll run about $2000.
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  #55  
Old 07-23-2001, 08:41 PM
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Hi Goose! The "air valve"/ "blowoff valve"/ "gulp valve" thing is kind of confusing to me also.

As far as I know, the only reasons to plumb it back to the inlet are, as TT440 says, the valve is open and pulling some air at low speeds, so it needs to be filtered, and that you save a bit (very small) of energy by putting air into the inlet after the air cleaner.

As for the spool up thing, centrifugal fans will slip (air) enough to only pump the maximum pressure the turbine blade will put out, so you are only moving the air the engine is using. If the blow off is open, you move a lot more air because of less backpressure, and when you hit the throttle, the air is already moving, so you do not have to accellerate all that air mass (lag). This applies to the situation when you have adequate rpm to spin the turbos fast enough to move air. IMHO the spool up has nothing to do with where it dumps, as long as it dumps somewhere.

At lower speeds, the turbos are not moving enough air to feed the engine, so air is being brought in through the blow off to make up the difference. When you hit the throttle in this case, you get better throttle response (gulp) because you don't have to pull that first air through the turbo to get it to the engine.

I run my valve right before the throttle body, and use a modified K&N valve breather on it for a filter. It works great, and the only time you here it is when it dumps boost on a throttle closure. I see no good reason to run it back to the inlet, except I would get slightly cooler air at cruise.
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  #56  
Old 07-23-2001, 11:54 PM
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Curious... I've slotted $2500 for my injection system. It can be done cheaper, but I'm wanting the good stuff.

I fiddled around with retrofitting a 5.0 Mudstain system. If you get Mallory to make a distributor with the Ford style electronics you can use everything else off the Mudstain to make it work.
You'll have to be creative but it can happen.
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  #57  
Old 07-24-2001, 08:03 AM
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You can also do it on the cheap with early 90's, speed density, GM TPI parts from a 350. On a 440 you would use two throttle bodies or get a 1000 cfm after market one.

One advantage of the TPI stuff is that most of the aftermarket units are based on TPI systems, so converting to an aftermarket programmable is a snap.
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  #58  
Old 07-24-2001, 08:55 AM
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ok this is my idea. 2 ford throttle bodies (65mm-80mm) not sure which one though. accel dfi gen 7computer. i thought about fabbing a sheet metal intake. if i go with 360 there are more off the shelf parts. they have a 4bbl throttle body and a magnum intake drilled for multi-point efi.
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  #59  
Old 07-24-2001, 09:52 AM
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Curoius: Here is a little hearsay that showed up last week. I was at a local show and a guy stopped to BS about EFI. He said he was looking at Gen7, but Accel wouldn't sell him one, because they are having problems. He said they told him of personnel changes, etc., and didn't know when they would be ready.

They were already a year late when they released the Gen7 at SEMA last October, so this is a real problem for them.

This is kind of discouraging, as I have a demo disc of the program, and it looks pretty nice, especially the dashboard.

As I said, this is all second hand, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.
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  #60  
Old 07-30-2001, 01:58 AM
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I was also thinking of using Mopars current Magnum efi setup. Another thing, how do you control boost levels. I hae an 87 Omni with the drivetrain from a Turbo GLH. I built a comaprator that uses the map sensor voltage to cycle a vacuum solenoid that switches between boost and atmosphere which goes to the waste gate. Also what about the Turbos making equal boost? If one happened to make a little more than the other, wouldn't airflow be disturbed? Just some other questions I thought of. Thanks again guys. I am going to buy Maximum boost and try to design a TT for my wife's 68 Town-N-Country With a big C body with no options, Lots a room. What was that site that had compressor maps? I need to figure out the Turbos needed for a stock 68 383? Would it work or do you think the CR needs to be lowered? Thanks again


Bob
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